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You're listening to the flip houses like a girl podcast where we educate, empower, and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly chasing their dream of flipping houses.
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Each episode delivers honest to goodness tools, tips, and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip.
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Here's your spiky hair to breakfast, Taco loving host house flipping coats.
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Debbie Dabiri.
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Hey you guys, I am so freaking excited about today's episode.
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So check it out.
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As I promised in the podcast description and as I've talked about, we are here to celebrate everyday women who are out there flipping houses.
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So here's the thing.
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Today is the first interview with somebody who is out there doing that very thing.
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All right, so I am super excited to introduce you guys to one of my dearest friends, Angelique Naylor.
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She lives in Austin, Texas.
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She's been investing in real estate since 2001 during this time, she's been involved in over 300 real estate transactions.
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Okay?
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She's done things ranging from wholesale deals to rehabs to rental properties as well as commercial deals, she's a baller.
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Right?
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But keep in mind she started out just like you, just like me at ground zero.
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She started with nothing in her pocket.
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Okay?
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So that can no longer be an excuse for you.
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She's also the founder and former owner of the Austin real estate networking club.
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But guess what?
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She's just an everyday person.
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She's just like you and me.
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Okay.
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The only difference is she's out there doing it.
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So some of you who are still on the sideline, you really have this big dream to go out there and flip houses, but you're still scared.
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You're still stuck.
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The only difference between you and somebody like Angelique or somebody like myself who are actually out there flipping houses.
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The difference is we made a decision to flip a house.
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We committed to that decision and then we found somebody who had already done that successfully multiple times and we followed the plan.
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And then lastly, we were resourceful, period.
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Those are the only differences.
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Those are the four things you've got to do.
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Decide, commit, follow a plan, and be resourceful.
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All right, so let's do this.
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Let's hear Angelique's story.
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All right.
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Awesome.
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So you have been investing since 2001 and I mean, I know our brains are a little bit old these days, but if you could take us back to your very first flip, uh, can you, can your brain do that?
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Goodness.
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That was a 18 years ago.
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I've definitely, uh, I've slept since then, but let me see if I can recall.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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It was, it was hard to think of what the first one was, but,, luckily I, I lived in the neighborhood where that flip was, so it was,, not as hard to remember the details.
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So the actual flip was in a neighborhood called University hills in Austin, which is kind of east side ish.
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Used to be in a really old neighborhood.
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, I targeted it for two reasons.
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One, I knew there'd be a lot of older people that had equity in their homes there.
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And I also lived in that neighborhood.
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So I was familiar with some of the challenges of trying to buy and invest in a piece of real estate there.
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And interestingly enough, I was never intending to rehab this house.
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I had read a book on wholesaling.
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I was only going to try to make a quick$5,000 by wholesaling it, which is what I learned to do in the book.
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And so I was just going to tie a property up, find another investor to take it off my hands and mark it up a few thousand so that I could make a little supplemental income cause I was working full time and in high tech back then.
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Got It.
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So wait, hold on a second.
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I'm gonna.
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, we're circular thinkers so we will go on tangents, but I promise it will all come back together.
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, at least that's the plan and the goal.
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Okay.
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, so you said you were targeting the neighborhood.
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What were you doing?
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What do you mean by you're targeting the neighborhood?
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I actually walked around in the neighborhood and I looked for houses that look like they were either abandoned or run down in some way.
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, this was way before I knew anything about real estate investing and investing.
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I had literally just read one single book at that point.
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And the premise of the book was to either use direct marketing or do door knocking or walk around neighborhood and talk to neighbors.
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, basically do your own bird dogging of finding your own properties.
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And they taught me what to look for, you know, like problems with a roof or a red tag on the electrical box or high grass newspapers piled up.
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Like just some sort of sign of the glass act for an older property is an indication that there could be a deal there if the person's interested in selling.
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And that's exactly what I looked for.
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Gosh.
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Luckily in that neighborhood there was an abundance of possibilities and I happened to stble across this property.
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When I looked in the tax records, the man owned, he owned probably six other properties.
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They were all rentals.
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This one had become vacant.
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, and I just wrote him a letter.
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I actually wrote him a letter and put it inside of a greeting card.
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I'm very fond of doing that type of marketing because you know, who doesn't want to receive a greeting card and they're like, oh, someone sent me a greeting card.
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Nobody wants to receive a business envelope.
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Like that can only mean a bill is due.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Or some, you know, it, it's basically junk mail and you can tell what that is easily, particularly if it's in that ridiculous window on the envelope format.
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And it says urgent on the outside.
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I never did that.
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I did very personalized marketing.
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This particular one was with a greeting card with a beautiful colored envelope, and a beautiful stamp, not a business stamp.
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Yeah.
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And handwritten by me.
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And my best penmanship was just really hard for me know.
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And so when he got it, yeah.
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You know, it just wrote him a letter and said, hey, I'm interested in buying your property.
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Literally had no experience in real estate investing.
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Had no idea what I was doing.
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I was simply following the format that I was taught in the book.
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Because at this point I'd had no coaching, no mentoring whatsoever.
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So I wrote a letter that was nearly verbatim from what it was in the book.
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, you know, I'd like to buy your property.
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I can pay cash, I can close quickly.
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None of those things were true.
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That's fine.
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No one needed to know that.
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No, they didn't.
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And so I met with him and I pretended to know what I was talking about.
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Again, completely following the formula and the rubric from the book.
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Yep.
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I'm at 100% like at that point I didn't feel safe or confident enough to try to deviate from any form of plan.
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Like I was like, this is what the book said.
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This guy's a multimillionaire.
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I'm following this plan.
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Right.
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And it worked.
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I mean the guy wanted$52,000 I talked him in somehow magically down to$45k it took a few meetings because he was an old guy and he didn't want to do business and he had no incentive to do business.
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He's like, I'm keep this property, I don't really care.
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Right.
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But I knew the formula didn't work based on what I had learned and read in the book.
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So I just kept getting further and further down and we settled on a purchase price of$45,000.
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Nice.
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, and again, my plan was to just mark it up to$50k and try to find some investor to buy it from me.
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Back then there weren't a lot of real estate investment clubs right there.
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There was nobody to pitch to.
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Right.
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And we'll probably talk about that later.
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But I ended up starting my own real estate club, right.
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And which became crazy wild successful in Austin because I didn't have a buyer's database at that point.
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Right.
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I know a lot of people.
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So,, I started doing more research and back then I wasn't licensed so I got a real estate agent to pull some comps for me and I realized, oh my gosh, the backend profit, this is, you know, upwards of$30,000, you know, maybe a little bit less, let it maybe a little bit more.
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So maybe I got a tiny bit greedy.
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I don't know if greedy is the right word, but I started thinking that I'd rather have$20k or$30,000 than$5,000.
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Right.
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At that moment though, I didn't know all the risk I'd be taking all that.
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I was trying to borrow money and renovate this thing.
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And you know, I, I know that there are questions later to talk about timelines and contractors and things like that, but let me tell you, nothing ever goes quite as planned.
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, and so as a new wholesaler, realistically it turned out well, but I probably should've just wholesaled that property because I didn't know enough to go straight into rehabbing that moment.
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And again, no coach, no mentor, simply read a book.
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Once I discovered that I wanted to rehab it, I of course had to go find a lender.
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And that ended up being a hard money lender because the condition of the property was terrible.
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Yep.
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Had a cracked slab.
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It needed a roof, at the end of the day, about$42,000 in repairs.
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Okay.
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So,, was in the property for about$87,000 total at the end of the day, seven, eight months later.
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It was supposed to be a six months flip, but the timelines got out of control at the time that I sold it, I sold it for$132k.
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Nice.
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, so a significant profit there, that same house in the same horrible, terrible condition today would be worth about$220k.
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That's, that's the name that I targeted last saying like, no, I literally wrote a check for$45,000.
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Yeah,$ 220k, like it's probably honestly closer to$300k.
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The last year is, it's been insane over there.
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, okay.
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So did, did the hard money lender finance 100% of the purchase and the renovation or they didn't?
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And I did buy it according to the formula of 70% of ARV after repair value minus repairs, et cetera.
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, but because it needed so much in repairs, I had to, I borrowed the purchase price on the hard money lender and oh my gosh, back then I want to say I paid 13 or 14% to the hard money lender.
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Yup.
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And I still was going to make so much money on the back end that I didn't fight with anybody about interest rates at that point.
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I had not a penny to my name when I, when I tied up the property, I think I was actually slightly negative in my bank account.
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I literally handed the guy a$10 bill to bind the contract, you know, and so for me to get a loan at any time, even at 14%, I was grateful and then went out to friends and family and I borrowed a second mortgage to cover the financing.
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So I had$10 total invested in this, in this split.
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Because I got creative and I followed the plan in the book for how to get hard money lenders and how to get private lenders and how to properly protect and secure those investments so that people didn't lose money and they were taking a huge gamble on me having no experience, you know?
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Right.
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It's trust.
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Right.
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And the last thing you want to do is do anything to compromise that trust.
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Absolutely.
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Cause they won't loan to you again.
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You can lose friends and family go south.
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Like you have to be so careful.
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And I actually created a portfolio to present people so I would pitch to them, here's what you're going to get when you invest in me.
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Yeah, yeah, totally.
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Absolutely.
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I think you should.
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Well I'd never done a deal before.
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You know, like if you sound like you know what you're talking about, right.
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Generally you follow the plan and and things because this plan was created by someone who had done it right.
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So there was no reason for me to try to do anything different.
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I just presented to my friends and family and they're like, oh my God, that sounds amazing.
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I totally want to do that.
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, what you'll find is a lot of people don't have time to invest in real estate, so they'd rather partner with you or loan money to you to do your deals and then they're more of a passive investor and that seems to work better.
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At least it did for, for my building, my career and flipping.
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Yeah, totally.
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So what I find is often the case with some of the women that I work with in my coaching programs is initially there's, there's some mindset work that has to be done.
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There's some inner work that has to be done around feeling confident enough and feeling worthy enough honestly, to go out and ask people they know and love for money to do something that they have never done before.
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So how did you, did you struggle with that at all or were you basically so naive that you didn't know?
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I mean, honestly, I've been there like then you didn't know that you should kind of feel maybe like an imposter.
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Yeah, a little bit.
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You know, it was a combination of things.
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, I think if I didn't have that book guiding me, I would've been a lot less coordinated in my efforts.
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I would've absolutely felt more nervous.
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Sure.
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, but this guy had a CD that he had made and it talked about, you know, real estate being an alternative to the stock market.
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And so I made a PowerPoint.
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I, you know, so I, I kind of tapped into some of my skillset from my previous work in it to,, to make a presentation that made me look and confident, even though I was terrified on the inside, because I'm like, I've never done this before.
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If someone says, how many deals have you done?
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I'm going to literally die right in front of.
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And sometimes the answer is, you know what?
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This is my first investment, but I've researched it.
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These are the comps, the returns are strong.
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This is how I'm gonna make sure that you're safe.
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This is how I'm going to secure your investment.
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, just speak to what is possible.
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, you know, and for a lot of investors it's a math transaction.
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It's sort of like, you know, if you make it emotional than people get scared, you know, it's you.
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If the nbers don't lie and you've got research and you can substantiate what the, the returns are, the people will love you for it, that you've done all that leg work and they don't have to go and do that.
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They might, you know, a, a more savvy investor, not your cousin from down the street might do additional research.
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But if your cousin or your family member believes in you and you feel and sound confident, then I think it's going to be,, you know, people will just be writing you checks, which is what, what happened to me.
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They want to make that money.
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They want to do better than they can do on a CD or in a bank account.
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People love real estate investing, but they're afraid of it themselves.
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So they want to, I rarely got turned down when I asked friends and family for money.
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And here's another tip too.
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You can't decide who has money and doesn't have money to give you.
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One of my investors was a school teacher who had$40k sitting in a, in a whatever the school teacher retirement plan as it wasn't called a 401k back then.
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, and she rolled it into a self directed IRA and invested 100% and wanted to do it over and over because she was making a solid 10%, which she was not making in that account at that point.
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So don't judge it, just tell everyone in your circle what you're doing.
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They'll get excited for you and with you.
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And then the conversation to ask for an investment will be easy at that point.
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It's huge.
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You have to follow the plan to protect them, you know, like talking about doing.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And you can't just borrow$20,000 from mom,$30,000 from your cousin and$50,000 from your neighbor down the street and combine that into one investment.
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Like I'm sure through your coaching programs you could teach people how to borrow the money properly.
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Oh yeah.
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It's so important to protect the people that are investing in your deals.
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Like it's no joke.
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Honestly, I think I'm more, no, I know I'm more protective of other people's money than I am of my own.
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Like I said for me, because that's integrity and that's your trust and no, we're not.
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We're not going to be messing around with other people's money.
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Things don't always go as planned.
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And that's another thing I'll say is when a deal does go south and sometimes it will, you have to, you know, over communicate to your lenders, particularly if they're friends and family, like institutional lenders, they have a lot of recourse for how to come after you.
00:17:59.111 --> 00:18:07.990
But if it's a friend or a family member, absolutely over communicate and then over-communicate again, you know, here's what's happening on the deal.
00:18:07.990 --> 00:18:09.519
Here's how I'm handling it.
00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:11.529
Promise I'm going to get you your money.
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.690
Did you know I need a three week extension?
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.619
Whatever that conversation is.
00:18:16.621 --> 00:18:22.380
If you duck it,, you're going to lose faith and confidence from your lenders and not a good place to be.
00:18:22.381 --> 00:18:27.450
And it'll be hard to ever get,, their confidence back to invest in another deal.
00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:29.160
Totally, totally agree.
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:46.450
Okay, so let's talk about, I know one thing that comes up often is how, how are you, how do you find and keep contractors?
00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:51.559
The big question of the day, it's so hard.
00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:57.500
, initially when I was starting out, I would find people on craigslist.
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:01.509
I would ask friends and family if they knew handymen.
00:19:02.289 --> 00:19:07.960
, nowadays there are a lot more sources for contractors like on tech and Angie's list.
00:19:07.961 --> 00:19:16.019
And,, the local real estate clubs will often publish a list of contractors where other investors have had a good experience.
00:19:16.020 --> 00:19:26.579
That's one of the trends that I started in my real estate club was nobody could get on my contractor list unless someone in my group had done business with them and how to get experience.
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.339
So we, we never publish negative reviews.
00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:30.900
We all need to did that privately.
00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:34.650
You know, someone said, Hey, do you know Xyz roofing company?
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:40.230
, we would handle that through private message if we hadn't had a good experience or if we had heard bad things.
00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:50.009
But that if it was a good experience, they got added to an excel excel spreadsheet and anyone who is a member of the real estate club could download the sheet of really good contractors.
00:19:50.700 --> 00:20:00.089
And it's important to,, reward those people with paying them fairly, with giving them your loyalty and using them over and over again.
00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:07.920
Because if you give them loyalty and you are fair and you're good to those people, they'll, they'll do the same in return for you very often.
00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:08.819
You know?
00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:09.589
Absolutely.
00:20:09.930 --> 00:20:25.269
Last one of the ways that I think I kept my mind core group of contractors and eventually I built my own crew and they worked on every single deal with me going forward, but that took about a year and a half to build, just to be perfectly honest, you know?
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.670
So will you guys list, I'll handle the, the one offs or Angie's list or thing like I said?
00:20:31.099 --> 00:20:31.549
Sure.
00:20:31.849 --> 00:20:32.630
Yeah, totally.
00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:33.890
, yeah.
00:20:33.891 --> 00:20:48.039
You know, while I've had struggles sometimes with plbers and electricians, contractors, like my key contractors, I just haven't, I've been really fortunate I guess.
00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:50.859
But honestly, I don't know that it's been that I've been fortunate.
00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:59.109
I think it's because I treat people well and I think that a lot of people who are running projects don't treat contractors well.
00:20:59.349 --> 00:21:00.759
And yeah, I get it.
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.299
There are some contractors who have done bad things.
00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:06.369
They've taken money, they haven't finished projects.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.599
I totally get that.
00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:18.099
And also there are some renovators who haven't paid contractors or who don't pay them on time or who treat them terribly.
00:21:18.220 --> 00:21:21.710
So it's, it goes both ways I think.
00:21:21.711 --> 00:21:32.329
So I'm glad that you said that because I totally agree that treating people well and paying them well and taking care of them will make everything so much easier.
00:21:32.950 --> 00:21:33.609
Absolutely.
00:21:33.611 --> 00:21:35.710
And it's, it's harder to get.
00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:45.339
So, so I'll back up a little bit and say that, you know, you can find the cheapest flooring guy on craigslist that'll do your job for a dollar a square foot.
00:21:46.210 --> 00:21:49.960
, he may or may not show up after he gets your initial deposit.
00:21:50.230 --> 00:21:50.230
Yep.
00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:56.769
, it might be a dollar and a half more expensive to go with one of those more reputable services.
00:21:57.470 --> 00:22:00.099
And, and sometimes you have to create balance for them.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:24.910
You know, like if you get the dollar an hour guy or a dollar a square foot guy and he leaves your job halfway through and then you've still got to hire the$2 a square foot guy, maybe it was a smarter thing to go with the more reputable public facing, you know, the, a lot of these websites now,, certainly thbtack, and I forget what some of the other sites are, there's a rating system, so that's more accountability.
00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:34.390
The people that are on there a little bit more expensive, but they also have this public facing presence where they can be rated if they don't do a job well.
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:34.839
Yeah.
00:22:35.109 --> 00:22:36.640
And that didn't happen to me.
00:22:36.641 --> 00:22:45.230
I mean, I ended up knowing my first contractor personally and it still didn't go well because he overran the budget.
00:22:45.230 --> 00:22:47.000
He overran the timelines.
00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:51.559
My inexperience allowed me to mismanage that and not stay on top of him.
00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:54.319
And it caused a lot of delays.
00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:58.730
It caused an eating into my profit and it caused a falling out with he and I.
00:22:58.520 --> 00:23:14.529
So, build your team, treat them well, pay them well, maybe don't always take the cheapest guy in town unless it's some tiny little thing that you know, you can either do yourself or it wouldn't crush your project to have to do it again.
00:23:14.779 --> 00:23:15.829
Yeah, totally.
00:23:15.890 --> 00:23:17.630
And on the flip side, yes.
00:23:17.631 --> 00:23:18.349
Take care of people.
00:23:18.351 --> 00:23:21.859
And on the flip side, get rid of contractors when you need to.
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:29.569
That was a big lesson I had to learn because I'm super loyal and so I'm like, no, I hired this person.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:42.000
At some point they'll come back and finish instead of cutting ties quickly and moving on and finding somebody who will actually come do the job now because times it's just business and time is money.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.710
Exactly like you're saying.
00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:45.000
And that's a hard one.
00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:45.680
Me Too.
00:23:45.681 --> 00:23:48.019
I don't like to hurt people, dissapoint them.
00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:58.849
I, you know, I also like to finish things that I started and, so yeah, that I think firing people is one of the hardest parts of the business.
00:23:58.851 --> 00:24:09.740
If you don't have that, if you're not that kind of person that has that skillset at your core and can't separate the two of them, this person isn't performing.
00:24:09.890 --> 00:24:18.700
Maybe I give them one chance after I've had a heart, heart conversation with them, you know, hey, I need this job done by Wednesday of next week.
00:24:18.701 --> 00:24:20.319
You haven't been here in four days.
00:24:20.349 --> 00:24:24.910
Are you going to finish or do we need to conclude our relationship and me hire someone else.
00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:27.099
Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:39.279
So along the same lines, did you use any software or some sort of magical system to manage your projects or was it like good old excel calendar?
00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:42.990
Luckily I am an it nerd, so I did do excel.
00:24:44.009 --> 00:24:48.049
, I was not as good at calendaring as I wish I would have been.
00:24:48.050 --> 00:25:00.559
Now like looking back, I think every project milestone in the spreadsheet should have been tied to a calendar event with some form of reminder because in that first project, for sure I was traveling a lot for work.
00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:04.309
I wasn't staying on top of what was happening in the house.
00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:04.609
Yup.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.630
Huge mistake.
00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:16.440
I mean, I don't, I'm not saying somebody has to be there every minute of every day, but check up on your contractors and make sure they're adhering to what's been agreed to in the contract in terms of the timelines.
00:25:16.650 --> 00:25:31.009
You know, if kitchen cabinets are supposed to go in on Wednesday and it's Friday and there are no kitchen cabinets, it's time to have a conversation and to manage that before it, it runs your project out two, three, four more weeks or months.
00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:42.960
, every day that property doesn't sell, you've got interest to your hard money lender, you've got holding costs of utilities and that not being able to recognize your profit.
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:44.400
So yeah, absolutely.
00:25:44.490 --> 00:25:54.769
I absolutely wish through all of my projects, all 300 of them that I would have stayed on top of this, the timelines and the calorie ending calendaring much better.
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:55.359
Yeah.
00:25:55.849 --> 00:25:55.849
Yes.
00:25:55.849 --> 00:26:13.289
Okay, so in terms of partnerships, did you ever do any sort of partnering with people on projects or was it mainly you and maybe like some investors?
00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:17.529
But did you ever actually partner with people on projects?
00:26:18.269 --> 00:26:24.160
I only did it once on a commercial property and I'm not sure that it's my favorite thing.
00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:34.990
, you know, it didn't go well for me, but it can be a viable plan as long as the agreements are in writing, they are iron clad, they are solid.
00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:39.009
I am, I'm such a, I used to be a fan of the handshake agreement.
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:41.589
I am no longer a fan of the handshake agreement.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:50.309
It needs to be solid and writing undisputable even if you are my best friend on the planet, if you and I did a deal, we would have contractual agreements.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:27:02.700
Even though we're the highest, you know, two highest integrity people on earth, we still would need to have a written agreement because if there's any kind of miscommunication or misunderstanding, the agreement can prevail.
00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:08.069
And,, I learned that lesson over and over the hard way by trusting people.
00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:14.980
, and the reason why I wasn't so great on con, on, on partnerships is it ate up a lot of my profit.
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:22.400
You know, it ate in one case on this commercial building, 60% of my profits went to this partner.
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:33.980
, had I just gone with a lender and then borrowed the rest of the money with friends and family, I would've made a lot more profit because I'm just paying interest to people rather than bringing them into my deal.
00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:41.779
And if they're not experienced and they don't understand how a real estate deal can go, it can be miserable having to babysit someone.
00:27:41.780 --> 00:27:50.839
Now if you're going to partner with an experienced real estate investor who knows the drill and is willing to sign agreements, that could be a whole different experience.
00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:59.930
I was bringing in partners who,, in, in the case of this commercial building had no other investment experience other than rental properties.
00:27:59.931 --> 00:28:08.690
So they didn't understand commercial buildings or renovations or you know, what the end game was going to be, why I made a great profit.
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:16.160
But it, it sadly, I only made 80,000 and I could've made 60% more had I not had these partners.
00:28:16.549 --> 00:28:18.619
And why did you bring partners into that deal?
00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:21.880
We were short on severely short.
00:28:22.390 --> 00:28:30.880
The lender initially told us we could bring 10% down for this$2 million building and later came back and said, Oh, I'm sorry you need 20%.
00:28:31.299 --> 00:28:37.359
Oh, uh, uh, that was a lot of money and we didn't have it.
00:28:37.361 --> 00:28:43.670
So,, we just, we sought out a, what I'm calling a money partner and that's what I thought they were going to be.
00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:47.109
And, and passive investor just giving us the money.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:29:01.589
, they actually bought into the LLC, wanted to be a part of the daily operations of the business, although they lived out of state, they couldn't be on site to help me manage the renovations and manage the leasing of the building.
00:29:02.369 --> 00:29:05.549
, so there were a lot of mistakes that I made in that partnership agreement.
00:29:05.849 --> 00:29:13.109
I think partnerships can be wonderful if you do them right and you bring in the right people and you have the right set of written agreements.
00:29:14.049 --> 00:29:24.599
So I don't mean to sound like I'm poo-pooing partnerships and it cost me a lot of money and certainly a lot of heartache for over the course of this project.
00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:25.950
Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:29.279
No, I, I completely get where you're coming from.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:30.359
I agree.
00:29:30.361 --> 00:29:34.990
Partnerships can be great and they can not be great, but you've got to do it right.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:41.119
So yes, you've got to protect yourself and you've got to protect other people, so everyone needs to be protected in the deal.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:41.680
Yeah.
00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:42.130
Okay.
00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:43.150
Let's see.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:54.980
Now when you did, when you completed a flip, were you typically your own realtor then?
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.529
Because you mentioned you got your real estate license.
00:29:57.530 --> 00:29:59.329
Did you just list those properties yourself?
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.859
Oh, in the beginning, no.
00:30:01.861 --> 00:30:06.900
I actually had to partner with real estate agents over time.
00:30:06.901 --> 00:30:15.700
I started using a flat fee agency and then I just got my own license at that point because I was seeing how much profit was being left on the table.
00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:27.789
, you know, obviously you always have to offer a, a buyer's agent, a, you know, market reasonable commission, but to list, I knew I could do all my listing activities on my own.
00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:30.099
I was doing so much marketing at that point.
00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:32.619
I didn't feel like I needed a real estate agent.
00:30:32.829 --> 00:30:37.240
And I also don't believe that people need to be licensed agent to be in this business.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:39.640
, I wasn't for several years.
00:30:39.641 --> 00:30:43.839
I am started in 2001 I don't think I ever even got my license.
00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:49.329
So 2004, 2005,, you can do all of your own activities.
00:30:49.330 --> 00:30:53.710
You can have partnership agreements with your realtors, you can go with a flat fee listing company.
00:30:53.711 --> 00:30:55.329
There are dozens of them now.
00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:01.029
, I don't think people should run out and get a real estate license necessarily to do this business.
00:31:01.339 --> 00:31:13.549
Yeah, no, I think once you, you're actually committed and your consistently flipping more than one property a year because otherwise the fees to have your license and the fees to have mls.
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:14.839
Yeah.
00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:19.250
It doesn't make sense if that's, if you're only flipping like one house a year.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:37.339
The only thing is,, if you do, if you, if you do not have a license and you are relying on realtors for information, they need to be responsive and they need to be sending you the information in a timely manner because things move way too fast in this business to sit, sit on your tail.
00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:38.630
That's the only thing
00:31:39.130 --> 00:31:51.259
what I had to do in the beginning and what I offered to do because after a while, if I wasn't listing properties with these realtors, they become less and less responsive because obviously everybody wants to get paid and get their slice of the pie.
00:31:51.289 --> 00:31:51.490
Right.
00:31:51.849 --> 00:31:56.769
So I used to also offer a, Hey, if you give me a CMA, I'll give you$50.
00:31:56.950 --> 00:31:57.519
Gotcha.
00:31:57.609 --> 00:31:58.720
And I'll take you to lunch.
00:31:58.721 --> 00:32:01.720
Like something that incentivizes them.
00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:10.259
, and you know, you can tell them they might get the listing, but that you can't say that too many times and not give them the list thing.
00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:12.960
, at that point they don't have any faith in confidence.
00:32:12.961 --> 00:32:18.450
So it's easier to just pay them by the CMA, the Comparative Market Analysis.
00:32:18.451 --> 00:32:43.670
Who for people who don't know the terminology yet,, pay them by to pull comparable sales and a lot of realtors, particularly junior level realtors might be excited about that because it's a chance to make a little bit of money, get some exposure, analyzing the market, get exposed to a bunch of different and maybe at some point secure listing or a buyer referral from you.
00:32:43.970 --> 00:32:44.940
You know, like, yeah.
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:51.829
Again, fostering loyalty and treating people fairly and respectfully often pays off in the end.
00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:53.430
Oh my gosh, for sure.
00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:55.410
This is such a relationship business.
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:56.190
It is.
00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:57.450
Yeah.
00:32:57.451 --> 00:33:02.019
I mean even with my hard money lenders, they are incredible.
00:33:02.109 --> 00:33:12.579
I mean one deal that went super south and was a couple of years late because of a title policy,, or a title company error.
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:19.150
You know, if I didn't have that hard money lender involved, they would have, who knows, they could have called the note due.
00:33:19.329 --> 00:33:29.740
Instead, I communicated like you mentioned earlier, the importance of over-communicating things and he hung out for two years and waited
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:34.140
one wait for an entire year on that Durham property.
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:40.259
Right now, every week I was sending emails to my private lender to say, I am so sorry.
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:42.359
Here's what[inaudible], what's going on to be expected.
00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:45.170
You know, here are the court dates, this is what's happening.
00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:47.900
I guarantee you you're going to get your money.
00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:50.990
, and he hung in there and it was amazing.
00:33:50.990 --> 00:33:54.049
And that's a part of the beauty of a private lender too.
00:33:54.050 --> 00:33:56.089
I mean, you were lucky with a hard money lender.
00:33:56.809 --> 00:34:12.059
, private lenders often have more flexibility and are often willing to compromise as long as they feel,, confident and they trust you and you haven't done anything to violate that trust to that.
00:34:12.139 --> 00:34:21.139
The other thing too, when you mentioned relationship business, there are other types of people that you need to build your dream house slipping business.
00:34:21.141 --> 00:34:23.269
You know, you'll need a good title company.
00:34:23.539 --> 00:34:33.860
You'll need someone who at the drop of a hat can pull, can create a HUD settlement statement or a closing disclosure statement for you so that you can see what your profit is going to be.
00:34:34.670 --> 00:34:42.230
, if you just Walton as a new investor and you haven't done any kind of relationship or rapport building, it's gonna be hard to do that.
00:34:42.231 --> 00:34:45.530
You need a good insurance agent, you need a good mortgage lender.
00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:51.619
, in case you're gonna refinance that after you rehab it and jp it as a rental property.
00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:54.079
I call these people a Dream Team.
00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:54.619
Yup.
00:34:54.710 --> 00:34:59.809
And so I'm sure in your coaching program you probably detail like, here's how you foster these relationships.
00:34:59.811 --> 00:35:01.730
Here's how you find these connections.
00:35:02.150 --> 00:35:06.769
It's so important to have a database of people that you can go to.
00:35:06.771 --> 00:35:10.400
You know, I had one title company for probably about four years.
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:26.650
, when they got less responsive, I started interviewing other title companies and spread the business around when I wasn't doing deals actively, I would still work for,, clients and friends and family to that one title company because I had a good relationship with them up to that point.
00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:36.900
, so definitely building your Dream Team, you know,, I don't really like the Cliche of let me take you to lunch kind of relationship building.
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.690
It's, here's, here's my letter of intent.
00:35:39.809 --> 00:35:40.769
This is who I am.
00:35:40.771 --> 00:35:42.119
This is what I'm trying to do.
00:35:42.150 --> 00:35:43.800
I want you on my Dream Team.
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:45.440
I want you to be my title company.
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.239
I bring every single deal too.
00:35:47.690 --> 00:35:59.780
How do we foster the best relationship and do that with each type of professional contractors, insurance people, mortgage people, hard money lenders, title companies,, the works.
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:00.199
Yep.
00:36:01.409 --> 00:36:01.940
Can't do this.
00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:04.159
Yeah, you cannot do this in a vacu.
00:36:04.429 --> 00:36:09.050
And there, there are people that you're gonna need to be able to be successful in this business.
00:36:09.409 --> 00:36:12.409
And those are the types of professionals that, that make it happen.
00:36:12.411 --> 00:36:20.340
You know, an insurance agent that can get you a declaration page, you know, 8:00 AM on a Monday morning for a closing.
00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:21.900
Those are good people.
00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:26.980
Those are the people you need in your corner and they, they need your repeat business and your loyalty.
00:36:27.489 --> 00:36:28.059
Yes.
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:29.360
Yeah, totally.
00:36:29.510 --> 00:36:30.380
Give and take.
00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:38.750
You cannot just reach out to people to be on your team and just expect to receive without giving anything.
00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:41.300
It's the same thing for free information, you know?
00:36:41.590 --> 00:36:41.590
Right.
00:36:41.630 --> 00:36:45.559
Don't, don't say to an investor, I want to take you to lunch and pick your brain.
00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:48.079
I could buy my own lunch.
00:36:48.130 --> 00:36:48.489
I don't know.
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:50.659
I don't, I don't need that.
00:36:50.661 --> 00:36:57.019
I want you to bring something solid to the table, you know, not just tenacity, but do you bring credit to the table?
00:36:57.021 --> 00:37:00.079
Do you bring money to the table, bring experience.
00:37:00.081 --> 00:37:08.219
And if you don't find a way to give back to that person that's giving you information, you know, and, and I think that's really important too.
00:37:08.221 --> 00:37:13.739
Like a lot of the gurus teach that like, oh, just call a real estate investor up and take them to lunch.
00:37:14.670 --> 00:37:16.139
Nobody's got time for that.
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:29.019
You know, like I will go the lunch with a select few, but they're going to have to show me their business plan and show me like what your commitment level is to getting the training and the teaching that you need to do this business.
00:37:29.021 --> 00:37:29.500
Right.
00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:32.980
So that I'm not babysitting you, you know, I'm just being real here.
00:37:33.380 --> 00:37:37.090
I mean, most people aren't actually going to do anything.
00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:51.739
So you know, it, it gets very frustrating to give a lot of information and help only for somebody to not do anything with it because your time is precious, so no, totally get it.
00:37:52.309 --> 00:37:52.789
Okay.
00:37:52.849 --> 00:38:12.780
So to wrap things up here, one big question that, so what I did was I asked the members of my tribe of awesome women who are in my program, in my coaching programs, I asked them questions that they wanted to know.
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:33.219
So one of the big ones was around mindset and I know we touched on it a little bit ago, but what kinds of, I guess challenges, did you feel like you had mindset wise?
00:38:33.221 --> 00:38:55.300
Like did you have worth issues or money, bad relationship with money or did you have any sort of challenges that you realized needed to be addressed in order to really like step into your own badassery basically
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:55.920
yes.
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:57.559
All of those things.
00:38:57.561 --> 00:39:02.300
I think you could do it an entire separate week long podcast, right?
00:39:02.380 --> 00:39:03.119
Those things.
00:39:04.030 --> 00:39:11.960
, I had no money in my bank account when I started, so I was terrified of, you know, what am I going to do if this goes south?
00:39:12.019 --> 00:39:20.659
How am I gonna pay for this,, you know, the mortgage,, from the hard money lender cause I had to pay a monthly interest on that.
00:39:21.820 --> 00:39:30.340
, I was afraid to ask people for money cause I, you know, again, I had to follow a plan to do that because just creating that on my own.
00:39:30.340 --> 00:39:32.469
I didn't feel safe or competent.
00:39:32.471 --> 00:39:37.480
I didn't think like who would give me money and when, you know, I don't manage my own money that well.
00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:48.159
, and so having the plan and sticking to it boosted my confidence so much that I didn't feel like an imposter at that point.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:40:04.570
I mean, maybe in the first few presentations, but once I got rolling, my competence level was soaring because I felt like I had this book and I had,, after my first flip, I paid$5,000 to enroll in an a real estate flipping class.
00:40:04.869 --> 00:40:06.789
And then I enrolled in a rehab in class.
00:40:06.791 --> 00:40:09.820
So I started to get training and coaching.
00:40:10.539 --> 00:40:16.869
, the mentor programs weren't that great back in the day, so we didn't have like this individual step-by-step mentoring.
00:40:16.871 --> 00:40:21.849
But having the training and the knowledge helped me feel even more confident.
00:40:21.851 --> 00:40:29.099
So in deals two, three, and beyond, I didn't have a lot of those issues because one, I had had some success to.
00:40:29.101 --> 00:40:32.130
I'd invested in a lot of training at that point.
00:40:32.670 --> 00:40:36.940
, at by my third deal, I had invested about$10,000 in training.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:37.280
Yeah.
00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:41.610
, and which is practically nothing in today's dollars.
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.570
, but it gave me that extra confidence boost.
00:40:46.170 --> 00:40:52.090
But in terms of worth issues,, I could tell people, visualize success.
00:40:52.269 --> 00:40:54.590
Don't think about what you don't want, right?
00:40:54.650 --> 00:40:56.480
Think about what you do want to happen.
00:40:56.570 --> 00:41:00.409
I want this seller to say yes, I want them to say yes, not even a want.
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:05.030
I visualize seeing them saying yes at the price that I want to pay.
00:41:05.329 --> 00:41:28.559
You know, and again, remembering to be fair and all of your dealings, you know, it's not about trying to hoodwinked someone and steal their house from them and not, you know, if, if 40 when I offered that man 42,000 or 45,000 that worked for him, he wanted 52 but even taking 45 he still, that house was 100% paid for.
00:41:28.769 --> 00:41:36.500
So that was still money in his pocket, still was profit and I through the pain and suffering of rehabbing it, realizing profit.
00:41:36.860 --> 00:41:39.989
So right, everybody won in that scenario.
00:41:40.110 --> 00:41:47.230
And that helps a lot too when you're operating from a level of integrity and fairness, that helps with confidence as well.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:49.750
It gives, you know, I'm doing good things.
00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:52.780
I'm helping solving people's real estate problems, right?
00:41:52.840 --> 00:42:04.929
They have a, an empty, ugly property that's abandoned, that needs love, and I'm going to go about this business with heart and integrity and do the best that I can do and how, and make sure that everybody wins.
00:42:05.139 --> 00:42:15.760
Oh my God, that will put your competence through the roof because you'll know you're doing good things as a good person and you're also arranging to be paid for it handsomely and that's okay.
00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:16.449
Life changing.
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.449
Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:19.269
It is okay to get paid for it.
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:20.019
Yes.
00:42:20.530 --> 00:42:38.190
I grew up extremely poor, so I've always had these weird and negative views about money, and once I started making money, I realized, oh my gosh, this allows me to give more back to charity, to invest more in my communities, to take care of my family at a level that I couldn't before.
00:42:39.019 --> 00:42:41.610
, and again, it's, it's 100% life changing.
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:42.289
Yeah.
00:42:42.590 --> 00:42:46.969
Well that is probably the best note we could end on.
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:59.510
I don't know a better way to end because I love the fact that we're ending on the note of it's not about you, it's not just about you.
00:42:59.659 --> 00:43:07.929
It is about how you can be a positive force in other people's lives, in seller's lives, in hard money.
00:43:07.931 --> 00:43:11.769
Lenders live in your family's lives and everyone's life.
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:13.570
It's not just about you.
00:43:13.789 --> 00:43:13.789
Yeah.
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:20.550
And the neighborhood that you're renovating and that you're going to create this beautiful product where there was once this ugly place.
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:21.679
Yeah.
00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:33.619
If you're only focusing on you and how you're going to benefit from the transaction you're missing, you are 100% missing the point I think so.
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:36.079
I think that's a great, that's a great place to end.
00:43:36.829 --> 00:43:38.869
Thank you so much for sharing.
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:44.719
So glad to be here and your wisdom and all of the things with us.
00:43:44.780 --> 00:43:49.280
I think people are going to love this episode and I'm grateful to you.
00:43:49.900 --> 00:43:50.559
Thank you.
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:52.840
Thanks for hosting me and for all that you do.00:43:53.429 --> 00:43:54.210
Take care Angelique.00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:56.059
Bye.00:43:56.389 --> 00:43:56.750
Okay.00:43:56.751 --> 00:43:57.710
I love that.00:43:57.739 --> 00:44:09.500
Not just because she's a very good friend of mine and we like to laugh and have fun, but there's a lot of wisdom there and there are lots of little tidbits that you can take away from this episode.00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:17.090
Remember, she started with nothing in her pocket, potentially negative something in her pocket.00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:19.909
She followed a plan.00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:21.199
She stuck to it.00:44:21.230 --> 00:44:22.880
She had no idea what she was doing.00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:25.159
She just did it.00:44:25.670 --> 00:44:30.199
She took the steps, picked a plan, and she stuck to it.00:44:31.090 --> 00:44:42.480
All right, you guys, I hope you love this episode as much as I loved recording it, and if you are finding value in this podcast, please do me a huge favor.00:44:42.989 --> 00:44:47.699
Leave a rating and a review wherever you listen to podcasts.00:44:47.849 --> 00:44:48.869
Why Debbie?00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:50.880
Why are you giving me homework?00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:52.440
Because here's the thing.00:44:52.980 --> 00:45:00.570
In order to reach more people like you, I need you to let people know that it's worth their time.00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:05.369
All right, and ratings and reviews are the way to do that for podcasts.00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:12.960
Also, make sure you click the subscribe button so that you are always notified when I drop a new episode.00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:19.860
And then lastly, I've got some goodies in the show notes, so be sure to check those as well.00:45:20.429 --> 00:45:23.429
I appreciate you so much for tuning in.00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:28.679
I can't wait to connect with you on the next episode and I hope you make it a great day.00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:30.000
Bye for now.
